Episode summary
Balancing Between Serving Clients Creatively And Optimizing Business Outcomes - Kitces & Carl Ep 192
Financial Advisor Success (Kitces)
· · 31 min · Hosts: Michael Kitces · Guests: Carl Richards
Summary
Carl Richards argues that some advisory firms should stop thinking of themselves primarily as businesses and start thinking of themselves as creative practices that happen to produce profit. He frames financial planning as an artistic act: a way to shape clients’ lives over time, not just a technical exercise in optimizing outcomes. The central tension is between building a business that maximizes conventional financial results and building a practice that feels meaningful, expressive, and human.
The conversation turns on the idea that profit is not the goal but the enabler. Richards says profit can become “permission” to keep doing work he loves, and that a profitable advisory firm can later give an advisor room to redesign how work gets done. He points to examples of advisors who have reworked meetings around hiking, fishing, long client hangouts, whiteboards, or even meals, showing that creative service models can still be serious businesses.
Michael Kitces pushes on the practical side, asking what an advisor should actually change. Richards’ answer is that the point is not to abandon profitability, but to stop letting optimization define the whole identity of the firm. For advisors who feel trapped, the better move may be to remove the noncreative parts, repack the client experience, and use business success as the right to work in a way that fits their creative energy.
Key takeaways
- Carl Richards says advisors can identify as creatives first and use a financial planning firm as the medium for their art.
- Richards argues that profit is “permission” to keep doing work you love, not the main reason to optimize the firm.
- Kitces highlights that several advisory practices are highly profitable even without big-firm complexity or private equity.
- Richards points to advisors who redesigned client meetings around hiking, fishing, long days together, and whiteboard-based presentations.
- The discussion suggests some advisors should not leave the profession; they should reframe and repackage the practice around what feels meaningful.
Notable quotes
“what if you thought of the financial plan as a piece of art, an act of creativity”
“Profit equals permission. Without pro, all all I really want out of the current project is permission to do the next one”
“there's room for you. And I and I I think we we're starting to see some of these, but”
“This isn't about money. This is about food”
How the episode opens
Greetings, Michael. — Hello, Carl. How are you doing today? — I I am I I am I am good. Yeah, things are — Things are really really good. — That sounded a little uncertain. No, I'm I'm I'm sometimes I chuckle about it because I just it sometimes it's
Anyway things are sometimes you feel like you don't deserve like you know what I mean like things are like I the kids are awesome the business is great I'm doing work that I really enjoy I get to chat with you like I don't have to go to my financial planning meetings listen to the last episode like it's all good
I know but like as you said that I literally watched you turn your head and look out the window — I know because the grass I partially I was like look at the gr are — Because your mission is time with your family mostly outdoors and the recording studio is indoors. So
That's right. That's right. Well, you know, like speaking sort of of that, um — Okay. — Where would you like to go today? — Yeah. I had this I I've had a recent experience that — Okay. — Um there's been threads of it for over like Yeah. more than two decades. Mhm.
Um if you Yeah. In fact, let me tell you the story. So we were in we were in the mountains in the Alps in France.
So Shamane and we were there. Shaman is like a uh you know climbing and skiing, you know, world headquarters of CL extreme mountaineering. like we were there to spend some time in the mountains and we came down one day and we were a little late for breakfast and my wife loves going on big adventures with me, but she always jokes because we always miss the like right time to eat.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- client communication
- creative advisory business
- optimization vs creativity
- profitability and flexibility
- client needs and relationships
Companies and tickers mentioned
- The Society of Advice
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Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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Financial Advisor Success (Kitces), this episode and its artwork belong to Michael Kitces. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.
