Episode summary
Challenges In Engaging The Disengaged Spouse Of A Client Couple - Kitces & Carl Ep 191
Financial Advisor Success (Kitces)
· · 34 min · Hosts: Michael Kitces · Guests: Carl Richards
Summary
Carl Richards argues that the profession’s instinct to require both partners in every financial-planning meeting may be too rigid. He describes himself as the “disinterested spouse” in his own marriage and says he was genuinely relieved when his wife and planner decided he did not need to attend routine meetings. That experience led him to question whether the usual language around a “disengaged spouse” is unnecessarily negative and planner-centric.
Michael Kitces agrees that couples need both voices in the initial planning process, but suggests the issue may be more about division of labor than disengagement. Richards says many couples naturally split household responsibilities by strength or interest, and planners should not assume the less-involved partner is failing. Instead, the planner can gather that person’s goals, concerns, and preferences through different formats, such as phone calls, voice memos, or less formal check-ins.
Richards proposes two conditions for this model: the less-involved spouse must still feel fully heard, and if they choose not to attend, they must genuinely accept the resulting decisions as joint decisions. The conversation also challenges the fear behind spouse engagement by citing research that recent widows change advisors at much lower rates than the oft-cited 70%, suggesting the industry may be overestimating the retention risk.
Key takeaways
- Carl Richards says being removed from routine planning meetings felt like a relief, not a warning sign, which challenges the profession’s default assumption that every spouse must attend.
- Michael Kitces argues the initial planning phase still requires both partners’ input because an advisor cannot build a shared plan without hearing both sets of goals and values.
- Richards says the language of “disengaged spouse” is planner-centric and too negative; he prefers framing it as division of labor or intentional disinterest.
- Richards’ two rules are that the quieter spouse must feel fully heard and must accept the final decision as a joint decision if they opt out of meetings.
- Kitces cites research suggesting the widely repeated “70% of widows leave their advisor” figure is not supported, and the actual recent-widow attrition rate may be closer to 14%.
Notable quotes
“Why do we have to get both spouses involved? Like spouse or partner”
“you really got to be vocal here”
“the person who is is creatively disengaged, creatively intentionally not focused somewhere else or something”
“they need to feel completely heard, not just heard, but understood”
How the episode opens
Well, good afternoon, Carl. Hello, Michael Kiske. How are you?
I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm enjoying the turning of the spring season.
It is well underway here. Trees are budding. Allergies, unfortunately, have been particularly heinously bad for me this year.
I've no idea why. I'm not even usually usually a bad allergies person, but I spent most of the past week just walking around with my eyes watering indoors. Like there was a day that I was stacked with meetings and I never set foot outside of my house and my water my eyes are just red and puffy and watery from allergies.
Well, I think it's the problem you should have stepped foot out of your house.
Is that the problem? Maybe I'm allergic to the indoors now? — Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, it's crazy. It's been a We don't need to spend too much time on the weather, but it's been this amazing warm winter spring and then it snowed an inch last night. So like my walk this morning, everything covered in white, super beautiful and now it's green grass outside. So it's that time of year in Utah. It's turning. It's turning.
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of things you're allergic to allergic to.
What was that? Speaking of things we're allergic to. Oh, sure.
All right, what do you want to queue us up on today? How about How about um you know, every once in a while I run across That was a terrible terrible uh intro. Every once in a while I run across beliefs that I just always assumed were true.
Okay. And you know, like that were My my wife's actually quite good at this. Like I'll just say Well, that's because that's how you do it, right?
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- client communication
- disengaged spouse
- financial planning engagement
- advisor-client relationship
- estate and widowed clients
Watch the episode
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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Financial Advisor Success (Kitces), this episode and its artwork belong to Michael Kitces. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.
