Episode summary
What's the Concern? | Money Stuff: The Podcast
Money Stuff The Podcast
· · 41 min · Hosts: Matt Levine, Max Abelson
Summary
The host and the guest host start with the Clippers’ alleged effort to pay Kawhi Leonard through Aspiration Partners, treating the NBA’s outside law-firm investigation as a case study in how “independent” reviews can uncover more wrongdoing than the company expects. They connect the scandal to a broader theme: money systems often look clean only because layers of intermediaries, contracts, and ledgers obscure what is actually happening.
A second thread is the rise and reversal of the DAT trade, where public companies buy Bitcoin and trade at a premium to the underlying assets. When those premiums disappeared, activists like Gabby Glicksburg and Ty Brown tried to buy discounted DAT shares, hedge the Bitcoin exposure, and pressure boards to liquidate the treasury. The host argues that this is a kind of arbitrage, not a moral failure, and that the hedge is part of the strategy rather than evidence of disloyalty.
They also discuss Robinhood’s tokenized AMC stock and AMC CEO Adam Aron’s complaint that Robinhood is creating a “quasi fake market,” then widen out to how most U.S. equities are ultimately held through Cede & Co. and DTC rather than directly on company books. The episode ends with Apollo’s alleged “aggressiveness premium,” where creditors charge more because they expect tougher behavior, and with a shared appreciation for the strange beauty of financial plumbing.
Key takeaways
- The guest host says the NBA’s investigation into the Clippers and Kawhi Leonard produced a worse scandal, not a cleaner one, because it uncovered multiple allegedly fake consulting and endorsement arrangements.
- The host frames the DAT trade as arbitrage: when Bitcoin-holding companies trade below their asset value, activists can buy the stock, hedge the Bitcoin, and try to liquidate the treasury.
- The host argues that hedging a DAT is not automatically disqualifying, because the real trade is capturing the discount, not being long Bitcoin.
- Robinhood’s tokenized AMC product sets up a fight over who gets to define shares, while the host says the plumbing of modern stock ownership already runs through Cede & Co. and DTC.
- The paper on Apollo suggests an “aggressiveness premium,” with roughly 100 basis points more yield on average for the most aggressive sponsor.
- The host treats finance as aesthetically satisfying, especially when the rules of ownership, transfer, and settlement become visible.
Notable quotes
“the Clippers were paying Aspiration millions of dollars for sort of vague environmental services. and Aspiration was paying Kawi Leonard it turns out basically the same number of millions of dollars for an endorsement deal”
“you could buy stock in a DAT and then like you know yell at the at the board and say you should sell the Bitcoin and liquidate the company”
“what's the concern”
“Apollo loans in particular carry a premium of about 100 basis points compared to other sponsors”
How the episode opens
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news. Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt. — That's the only thing I have to say. — I always like wish that our relationship was like in Annie Hall where Alvie and his friend both call each other Max constantly. Cuz I called you and I'm like, "Max," and you never reply, "Yes, Max."
Oh, yeah. You want You want me to talk about my name? — Probably not. — You put it like that. No. Absolutely. So, Max, — I've never mastered the intro of the guest hosts, but here we are. — I'm a guest host.
Hello and welcome to the Money Stuff Podcast, your weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. I'm Matt Lavine and I write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion. — And I'm Maxon, a senior reporter here at Bloomberg News where uh I write about money and power.
Money and power. — Yeah. You know, Matt only writes about money stuff. I write about money and power. — I don't like power. — I love power. — I don't want it. — No, I find power offputting. And I enjoy money.
You like hold your nose once a subject like crosses over from money to power. You're like, "No, but can't put this in the column. It's about money, but it's also about power.
So, we got to cross it off the old list. I sometimes quote Samuel Johnson who says something like man is seldom so innocently engaged as in the pursuit of money as in getting money. He says I know you disagree but many people disagree.
Many people think money is the roots of evils and things like that but no I think money is is a charming and innocent subject and power is nefarious.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- money and power
- meme-stock markets
- stock ledgers and blockchain
- independent investigations
- financial market microstructure
Companies and tickers mentioned
- HOOD
- AMC
- APO
- Robinhood Markets
- AMC Entertainment
- Cede & Co.
- Apollo Global Management
- Grayson Moorhead Securities
Watch the episode
Watch “What's the Concern? | Money Stuff: The Podcast” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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