Episode summary
The $9B Portfolio That Fits on One Page
Swimming With Allocators
· · 48 min · Hosts: Alexa Binns, Earnest Sweat · Guests: Frank Mihail, Shane Goudey
Summary
Frank Mihail describes how North Dakota’s roughly $9 billion trust lands portfolio is run as a lean, concentrated book with a long time horizon and no pension liabilities. The fund is supported by revenue from state-owned land, including oil royalties and taxes, which he says act as a natural hedge and helped cushion the 2022 drawdown even as stocks and bonds fell sharply. Because the plan is an endowment rather than a pension, he says it can tolerate more risk and has recently shifted a bit from credit toward equity.
A major theme is simplification. With only three people on the investment team, the fund uses external commingled vehicles to avoid operational burden, keeps the portfolio to about 40 line items, and relies on a monthly board cadence plus a two-step diligence-and-approval process. He says that structure makes it possible to move quickly enough for fund closings while staying transparent as a public plan subject to records requests.
The discussion also covers how public plans are evolving in private markets. The guest says venture and private credit often require fund-of-funds or other intermediaries to access smaller managers, but he prefers track record, team stability, and GP commitment before investing. He also sees infrastructure, especially energy tied to data centers, as a secular opportunity, and he views sports teams as a scarcity asset with global upside if league access broadens.
Key takeaways
- The guest says North Dakota Trust Lands manages about $9 billion with only three people by keeping the portfolio to roughly 40 line items and outsourcing complexity.
- He argues the fund’s oil royalty income is a natural hedge that helped limit the 2022 NAV drawdown to about 2.5% even as stocks fell 20% and bonds 10%.
- The guest prefers external commingled funds for public equities and bonds because internal SMAs create too much monthly reconciliation and audit work.
- For venture, he favors large-platform access or fund-of-funds structures so the fund can write a $50 million check while reaching smaller managers.
- He says public plans are moving slowly into private credit and infrastructure, but many still need dedicated allocation buckets before they can scale those exposures.
Notable quotes
“our entire portfolio fits on one page and like I I can recite it like the back of my hand”
“we have 40 line items and we try to keep it pretty tight”
“because we are an endowment and not a pension, we don't have any liabilities. We do have the ability to to take risk”
How the episode opens
Welcome to Swinging with Alligators, — The VC podcast from the LP perspective — With your hosts Alexa Bins — And Ernest. You ready? Let's dive in. Today's episode we have Frank Mihel, chief investment officer at North Dakota Trust Lands. He's the CIO overseeing roughly 9 billion across North Dakota's sovereign wealth and permanent funds. So, um, you can think of this as a model closer to the Texas permanent and Alaska permanent funds than a traditional pension. We're so eager to have you. Thank you, Frank, for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me, Alexa Ernest. Pleasure to be here. — Um, we have discussed how you ended up in North Dakota. Um, we've got a shared alma mater at UCLA. Um, and and what it took to convince your family they wanted to become North Dotans. Can you uh bring us on this journey of how you have ended up uh where you are?
Uh yeah well I grew up in Los Angeles um and uh started my career uh in the oil and gas industry as an engineer. Um at that time um like 2006 preGFC everybody around me was making money in real estate in Los Angeles and uh so I started moonlighting as a real estate agent and my timing was impeccable. By the time I went full-time into real estate sales it was 2008.
Um and so you know I started learning about uh like distressed real estate investing in like apartment buildings and um that was sort of my like first taste into investing and um I wanted to learn more about investing. So I pivoted from real estate to wealth management um and when I was 30 years old and I was hungry to learn. So, I got the CFA.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- trust lands portfolio
- oil royalties and market downturns
- venture and alternatives allocation
- infrastructure and data center energy demand
- legal support for fund managers
Companies and tickers mentioned
- North Dakota Board of University and School Lands
- Sidley Austin LLP
Watch the episode
Watch “The $9B Portfolio That Fits on One Page” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
More from Swimming With Allocators
Swimming With Allocators, this episode and its artwork belong to Earnest Sweat, Alexa Binns. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.
