Episode summary
The New VC Game | CoreWeave Sell-Off Creates Panic | Revenue Multiples Out of Control
Summary
The conversation argues that venture capital has become far more concentrated, with the best firms now chasing only the few categories that can plausibly produce trillion-dollar outcomes. The speakers contrast that with a growing base of strong software businesses that still have revenue, profitability, and momentum but struggle to raise money because they do not fit the current AI narrative. They also argue that mega-funds now need very large ownership stakes, which pushes them toward only the biggest outcomes and makes early-stage investing harder to justify on pure capital-efficiency grounds.
Much of the episode focuses on whether the AI trade is cracking. CoreWeave’s sell-off is treated as a warning sign, but the broader view is that the real issue is not demand collapsing, it is how quickly demand must keep growing to justify enormous debt and capex. Anthropic’s slowing growth is discussed as a normal sign of scale rather than a fatal one, even as its implied IPO valuation and revenue predictability raise questions about how public markets will price AI leaders.
The episode also explores where value accrues in the AI stack: code review, build-to-prod tooling, inference infrastructure, and routing decisions inside products like Replit. The speakers argue that the biggest near-term opportunities may be in the less glamorous layers around model usage, while also warning that private-market valuations in companies like Modal, Town, and others may be running far ahead of public comps. Bending Spoons and 37signals are held up as examples of alternative software ownership models that may become more attractive as venture gets pricier and more selective.
Key takeaways
- The host argues venture is increasingly unfundable for strong companies that do not fit the AI hype cycle, even when growth and profitability are excellent.
- The guest says mega-funds now need billion-dollar positions, which pushes capital toward a tiny number of very large outcomes.
- The speakers see CoreWeave’s weakness as a sensitivity issue tied to debt and capex, not necessarily proof that AI demand has broken.
- The guest says code review, or more broadly build-to-prod, is the most important software category because productionization is now harder than generation.
- The speakers warn that private AI valuations and software multiples may be getting too far ahead of public market benchmarks.
- The host cites 37signals and Bending Spoons as examples of software businesses that can create or preserve value outside the standard venture path.
Notable quotes
“You got to have billiondollar positions in everything in big boy venture today”
“Coreweave is Btier compared to Nvidia and friends”
“I actually think code review is the single most important category today in software”
“We are just taking revenue multiples too far today”
“growth is clearly slow slowing fairly quickly but from an unsustainably high number”
How the episode opens
You got to have billiondollar positions in everything in big boy venture today. I think billion dollar positions are nothing. There's no point in investing otherwise with large funds.
50 million h 100red million seeds. You can't make money. So what are we talking about today?
Are the AI cracks starting to show? Coreweave is hit pretty hard. Next up we have anthropic.
The talk of IPO town could be priced at 1.5 trillion, not the 2 trillion originally suggested. This and so much more in the episode today. If the enduser demand is there, then everything is going to work out.
Coreweave is Btier compared to Nvidia and friends. Oracle is Btier. — We're all Btier assets. How about that? — I actually think code review is the single most important category today in software. — Coding is the mother load of LLM value.
We are just taking revenue multiples too far today. Bending spoons is like the Birkshire version of software. Ready to go?
boys. Um, I just tweeted something that has got a rather large response from a founder community. I think venture is broken today in the way that I'm meeting more and more companies that fit this profile.
I just met a company today and I have a company that's 20 million in era growing incredibly fast 6 700% profitable brilliant business with a great team crickets VCs do not want it is venture broken today well look I'm sure Rory has a lot of thoughts I'll just add one one ahead of it which is we were talking about this company which will be nameless right I invested in a in a vaguely similar company like doing similar things for similar size companies they raised about a 300 $3 million seed round and they're planning that's it.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- venture capital valuations
- ai trade sell-off
- private market revenue multiples
- seed vs growth investing
- private ai valuations vs public markets
Companies and tickers mentioned
- BILL
- BOX
- DOCU
- REPL
- BRK-B
- TSLA
- Algolia
- Talkdesk
- Owner
- RevenueCat
- Saleloft
- Bill.com
- Box
- DocuSign
- WalkMe
- CoreWeave
- Anthropic
- OpenAI
- Replit
- Modal
- Town
- Bending Spoons
- 37signals
- Berkshire Hathaway
- Tesla
Watch the episode
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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20VC, this episode and its artwork belong to Harry Stebbings. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.