Episode summary
Mike Trigg and Sanjay Ayer – The Discipline of Getting Better at WCM (EP.467)
Capital Allocators with Ted Seides
· · Hosts: Ted Seides · Guests: Mike Trigg, Sanjay Ayer
Summary
WCM’s hardest stretch in 2022 became a catalyst for a broad reset in how the firm identifies, sizes, and monitors growth stocks. The guests said the drawdown forced them to look inward, admit that backward-looking quality and growth had become too correlated, and recommit to their framework of “mo trajectory” and culture. That led to more breadth in the focus list, tighter portfolio-construction guardrails, smaller decision-making groups, and more rigorous modeling around how companies are changing versus how they looked in the past.
The guests argued that the firm’s edge comes from being lean, generalist, and flexible enough to exploit change where specialists may miss it. They pointed to reallocations from expensive, mature winners such as Costco and Louis Vuitton toward ideas like Rolls-Royce, GE, GE Vernova, Siemens Energy, and Action/3i Group as examples of rethinking what future quality looks like. They also said the turnaround strengthened client trust because the team was willing to explain turnover, endure short-term pain, and keep iterating.
A major theme was using AI as a research partner rather than a generic productivity tool. WCM is building models to codify mo trajectory and culture from filings, transcripts, and other data, while also extending the platform into private markets, where early investments in Anduril, Databricks, and Anthropic have reinforced the public-private research loop.
Key takeaways
- The guests said 2022 exposed that WCM had been over-reliant on companies that were already winning, so they reset the process around forward-looking mo trajectory.
- They said tighter portfolio-construction guardrails and a custom categorization system helped restore breadth to the research funnel and reduce correlation in the portfolio.
- The guests described selling expensive compounders like Costco in favor of lower-priced names with better future trajectory, including Rolls-Royce, GE, and Siemens Energy.
- They said AI is being used to codify mo trajectory and culture from documents and transcripts, not just to automate generic work.
- Private markets became a strategic extension in 2022, with early wins in Anduril, Databricks, and Anthropic validating the public-private research loop.
Notable quotes
“we need to put the trajectory back in mode trajectory”
“the portfolio was too correlated, but the root cause of that was the research pipeline had become too correlated”
“It's about identifying high quality in the future before the market does, not about what the company's necessarily done in the past”
How the episode opens
Playing the long game is the right strategy. The market's myopic. Stick to your nitty.
But there are occasions where long- termism is a lazy crutch. I'm Ted Sides and this is Capital Allocators. My guests on today's show are Mike Trigg and Sanjay, portfolio managers at WCM Investment Management.
$120 billion investor in growth companies where Mike also serves as co-CEO. I've had the opportunity to chronicle the growth of WCM over the years in conversations with Paul Black, Mike Sanjay, and other members of the team. Paul first joined the show in 2018 when WCM managed $25 billion.
and Mike last appeared four years ago with Paul describing a piece they had just written entitled How to Build a Hundred Billion Dollar Money Manager. That podcast marked a near-term peak in assets for the firm and subsequently offered a great case study in humility, adaptation, and evolution. In this conversation, we unpack how WCM navigated its most difficult stretch of performance in a long time, what they learned from it, and how they came out stronger on the other side.
Mike and Sanjay discussed changes to their investment process like putting the trajectory back in mo trajectory and searching for the cult in culture, retooling the research funnel, integrating AI as a research partner, and expanding into private markets. As always with WCM, a common thread throughout our discussion is doubling down on the firm's core values to think different, get better, and serve others. I hope you enjoy the show, and if you do, this week, why not reach out to your parents?
If they're anything like my folks, they probably aren't that technologically inclined and might need to learn how to use the podcast app on their phone. Reach out to them, send your love, and show them how to use the app.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- wcm performance rebound
- investment process changes
- ai in research
- private markets expansion
- culture and values
Companies and tickers mentioned
- WCM Investment Management
Watch the episode
Watch “Mike Trigg and Sanjay Ayer – The Discipline of Getting Better at WCM (EP.467)” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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Capital Allocators with Ted Seides, this episode and its artwork belong to Ted Seides – Allocator and Asset Management Expert. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.
