Episode summary
ETF Action’s Mike Akins on Goldman’s NEOS Deal, NHL Futures ETFs, Crypto & More
ETF Prime
· · 1 hr 1 min · Guests: Mike Akins, Paul Baiocchi
Summary
The host and Mike Akins focused first on Goldman Sachs’ planned acquisition of Neos Investments, a deal valued at up to $2.25 billion. Akins said the move fits a broader industry pattern: large firms want to own differentiated ETF products rather than rely on competitors’ funds, especially in crowded areas like synthetic income and options-based strategies. He argued that distribution is the real moat in ETFs, but warned that fee compression and the need to win proxy votes could make integration harder than the headline deal suggests.
Akins then turned sharply critical of the growing wave of ETFs that resemble gambling products, including proposed NHL futures ETFs and leveraged or crypto-linked wrappers. He said regulators should draw a clearer line between productive investing and speculation, because ETF packaging gives products a quasi-stamp of approval. He also warned that the wrapper is powerful enough to bring in all kinds of speculative exposure, but that does not mean every idea belongs inside an ETF.
Later, the host and Paul Baiocchi discussed ALPS’ IDOG and SMTH funds. Baiocchi said IDOG leans into international value and dividend exposure, while SMTH has benefited from steady demand for a core-plus bond strategy with disciplined credit and duration management. He argued that advisors remain structurally underweight international stocks and that fixed income investors still need to pay attention to total yield and the full cost of ownership, not just headline expense ratios.
Key takeaways
- Mike Akins said Goldman’s Neos purchase looks logical because ETFs are increasingly about distribution, scale and owning differentiated products rather than just buying assets.
- Akins warned that fee compression remains a risk for high-cost options-income and defined-outcome ETFs, even when a large buyer like Goldman can find synergies.
- Akins argued regulators should not encourage gambling-like ETFs, saying the ETF wrapper can legitimize speculative products that do not allocate capital productively.
- Paul Baiocchi said IDOG’s edge over plain-vanilla developed ex-U.S. funds is its value and dividend tilt, plus a more balanced sector mix than EFA.
- Baiocchi said SMTH has attracted strong inflows because advisors want a disciplined core-plus bond manager that avoids chasing duration or credit risk.
Notable quotes
“the idea of the digital ledger and all of that good stuff”
“There's a lot of good reasons to have derivatives markets, but we need to find a way to incentivize the right type of investing and disincentivize the wrong”
“There is this concept, and this is, you know, one of the things I had, you know, the concept around crypto”
“the idea that you're not going to get too high when the market's in your favor, you're not going to get too low when you're in a challenging market”
How the episode opens
Bitcoin, Ethereum, I'm not going to have that the philosophical argument whether it's a good investment or bad investment. I get why putting it inside of an ETF wrapper like gold, but now you've got every coin that comes to market like HyperLiquid is not legal in this country, yet it is an ETF wrapper.
All right, joining me will be Mike Akins, founding partner of ETF Action, which is an independent ETF data and research platform. And I'll tell you if there is an ETF metric or data point that exists out there, they probably have it on the platform along with all sorts of other in-depth ETF analysis and commentary. And Mike, of course, is a long-time industry veteran.
He was previously head of ETFs at Alps, where he helped build and grow that into a multi-billion dollar ETF business. And he's someone I just enjoy talking shop with. And that's exactly what we'll do this week.
We are going to bounce around on several different topics, including some pretty big news last week with Goldman Sachs announcing that they would be acquiring Neos Investments, who's a 30-plus billion dollar ETF issuer. And of course, that follows Goldman closing on the acquisition of Innovator ETFs earlier this year, another 30-billion dollar issuer. And so, Mike and I will have our reaction to that.
Let's see, we'll also talk about some new filings for NHL futures contract ETFs. You heard me right. There was a filing late last week for ETFs that would allow you to bet on the performance of NHL teams.
We'll see if they get approved, but regardless, there's clearly this continued blurring of the line between investing and gambling when it comes to ETFs. So, we'll get into that. We'll also touch on crypto ETFs, and then I want to find out what Mike is watching in the industry moving forward.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- goldman neos deal
- nhl futures etfs
- crypto
- etf education
- international equities and fixed income
Companies and tickers mentioned
- GS
- SSNC
- Goldman Sachs
- NEOS Investments
- SS&C Technologies
Watch the episode
Watch “ETF Action’s Mike Akins on Goldman’s NEOS Deal, NHL Futures ETFs, Crypto & More” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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