Episode summary

How to Get Out of a Bubble Without Selling Too Early: Jeff deGraaf Explains

The Meb Faber Show · · Hosts: Meb Faber · Guests: Jeff deGraaf

How to Get Out of a Bubble Without Selling Too Early: Jeff deGraaf Explains – The Meb Faber Show

Summary

Jeff deGraaf argues that higher real yields have changed the investing landscape in a meaningful way: investors no longer have to reach for equities or speculative assets to earn a return. Using Walter Bagehot’s “John Bull can’t stand 2%” framing, he says real yields in the high twos make bonds a credible alternative again, especially versus an equity market that is not cheap and still carries substantial volatility. He thinks the shift will be gradual, not abrupt, as investors slowly move back toward more balanced portfolios.

He also says the market is showing classic late-cycle stresses. Higher real rates are tightening financial conditions, which is widening credit spreads, pressuring lower-quality debt, and rotating styles toward defensives and value. DeGraaf says the semis bubble signal fired in late April, and the group peaked about two months later, illustrating his view that investors should not sell too early but should be prepared to “shoot them in the back” once a bubble has clearly matured.

On private credit, he says the post-GFC growth of shadow banking is now showing strain through gates, pay-in-kind structures, and deteriorating lower-tier credits. He calls the situation “stably deteriorating,” not systemic yet, but warns that a liquidity problem can become a solvency problem if it persists.

Key takeaways

  • Jeff deGraaf says real yields in the high twos finally give investors an alternative to stocks and make a more balanced 65/35-type portfolio attractive again.
  • DeGraaf says higher real rates are already tightening financial conditions, widening credit spreads, and favoring defensives, value, and higher-quality companies over cyclicals.
  • He says the semiconductor bubble signal fired in late April and the group peaked in late June, supporting a “shoot them in the back” approach instead of trying to top-tick bubbles.
  • DeGraaf says triple-C stress is concentrated in a relatively small set of issuers, but the breadth of weaker credit is expanding.
  • He says private credit is “stably deteriorating” as higher floating-rate burdens, gates, and covenant erosion start to show up in the market.

Notable quotes

“John Bull can't stand 2% and the whole idea of that was because it was a hard money system anything below 2% investors kind of said”

— Jeff deGraaf

“we do think that there are alternatives to just being you know fully invested in equities here that finally there are alternatives today not just not just equities”

— Jeff deGraaf at 5:21

“Higher real rates are essentially a tightening of financial conditions, right? So that tightening of financial conditions which is what that that quote unquote signal is”

— Jeff deGraaf at 15:27

“The bubble indicator is simply a doubling of an index. It has to be diverse, doubling of an index over or within a two-year period of time from a high”

— Jeff deGraaf at 19:10

“Stably deteriorating may just turn into deteriorating at some point if there's a Lehmanesque moment”

— Jeff deGraaf

Topics

  • real yields
  • equity bubbles
  • credit spreads
  • private credit deterioration
  • tape reading and regime analysis

Companies and tickers mentioned

  • Renaissance Macro Research

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Watch “How to Get Out of a Bubble Without Selling Too Early: Jeff deGraaf Explains” on YouTube

Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.

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