Episode summary
How Bitcoin Can Pay You 15% Forever
Summary
Matt Cole argues that Strive is building around a permanent short on the U.S. dollar, using perpetual preferred equity to pay investors a dividend forever while backing the structure with Bitcoin. He says the firm’s goal is to offer 13% and 15% yields, and that if Bitcoin rises faster than fiat debasement, common equity holders capture the upside after preferred dividends are covered. The core pitch is that Bitcoin should be treated as the hurdle rate, not U.S. Treasuries or traditional benchmarks.
He says the biggest risk is Bitcoin’s volatility, so Strive keeps roughly 10% to 15% of assets in cash and believes it can underwrite an 80% Bitcoin drawdown without selling core holdings. Cole also says investor demand led Strive to launch a second preferred with a fixed, perpetual yield, because some buyers wanted certainty rather than a floating rate that might fall over time.
Cole frames digital credit as an emerging category that could expand beyond a few issuers. He thinks institutional adoption will often happen through mandates, with Bitcoin exposure arriving via preferreds or operating companies when spot Bitcoin is unavailable. He also sees the ETF business as still strategically useful, but much smaller than the Bitcoin-focused financing strategy.
Key takeaways
- Matt Cole says Strive is effectively "perpetually short the U.S. dollar" by selling preferred equity that pays dividends forever.
- He says Strive offers 13% and 15% perpetual yields, and common equity only benefits if Bitcoin outpaces fiat debasement.
- Cole says the company can underwrite an 80% Bitcoin drawdown and still avoid selling Bitcoin by holding about 10% to 15% cash.
- He argues Bitcoin should become the hurdle rate for judging returns, making Treasuries look like a "risk guaranteed rate" of lost purchasing power.
- Cole expects digital credit to grow into a broader category with more issuers and more differentiated risk-return products.
Notable quotes
“They will never stop debasing the US dollar. And so, we are perpetually short the US dollar because we are selling a perpetual preferred equity”
“when you set Bitcoin as the hurdle rate, the reality is that's a really tough hurdle to beat”
“we have two preferred equities. One pays a 13% yield, one pays a 15% yield forever”
“we could ride out any historical bare market without even have to sell a single Bitcoin”
“that's not the risk-free rate, that's the risk guaranteed rate”
Topics
- perpetual preferred equity
- bitcoin dollar short
- digital credit
- institutional bitcoin adoption
- bitcoin etfs
Companies and tickers mentioned
- Strive
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Watch “How Bitcoin Can Pay You 15% Forever” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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The Pomp Podcast, this episode and its artwork belong to Anthony Pompliano. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.