Episode summary

Why the White House's Hack-Back Memo Leaves North Korea Off the List

Unchained · · Hosts: Laura Shin · Guests: J. Christopher Giancarlo, Ari Redbord

Why the White House's Hack-Back Memo Leaves North Korea Off the List – Unchained

Summary

The guests argue that the White House’s new hack-back memo is a real but limited step toward letting vetted private actors help fight cybercrime. The memo, issued in August, authorizes government contractors to pursue certain offensive actions, but only after sign-off from the Department of Justice and Treasury, and only under rules being written by federal agencies. One guest says this follows the direction he and Chris Perkins pushed for after presenting the crypto privateering idea to the White House and later to Treasury, law enforcement, Congress, and the Senate. He calls it an incremental move that still points toward using private-sector innovation to match faster attackers.

A second guest stresses that the program deliberately stops short of targeting state actors such as North Korea’s Lazarus Group. The White House appears to have drawn a line around criminal enterprises like cartels, ransomware gangs, and pig-butchering networks, because going after a nation-state could raise war and international-law issues. The guests argue that this narrow approach is intentional and prudent: the administration wants to start with private criminal networks that steal enormous sums, then possibly expand later if the first wave works. They also note the scale mismatch, saying North Korea has stolen billions, but transnational criminal organizations steal hundreds of billions a year.

Key takeaways

  • The White House memo gives private contractors a narrow hack-back role, but each authorization still needs DOJ and Treasury approval.
  • One guest says the new policy is directionally aligned with crypto privateering, but it uses the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act rather than the constitutional framework he had proposed.
  • The guests say the current framework is aimed at criminal enterprises such as cartels, ransomware gangs, and pig-butchering networks, not state hackers.
  • Ari Redbord says North Korea and other nation-state actors are excluded because the White House wants to avoid inadvertently crossing into acts of war.
  • The guests argue the administration is starting incrementally so it can test the model before expanding the authorities further.

Notable quotes

“the White House actually began a process of enabling government contracting agencies there”

— A speaker on Unchained at 2:11

“this is very specific to uh individual criminal actors”

— A speaker on Unchained at 7:06

“but Iran, North Korea, uh that is a uh that's a different category”

— A speaker on Unchained at 9:08

Topics

  • crypto privateering
  • white house cyber policy
  • hack-back memo
  • lazarus group
  • doj treasury authorization

Companies and tickers mentioned

  • TRM Labs

Watch the episode

Watch “Why the White House's Hack-Back Memo Leaves North Korea Off the List” on YouTube

Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.

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Unchained, this episode and its artwork belong to Laura Shin. Octagon is not affiliated with the show; this page is an independent summary.