Episode summary
New Zealanders Are Moving to Australia in Record Numbers. Can It Get Them Back?
Wall Street Week
· · Hosts: Chrystia Freeland, David Westin · Guests: John Key, Gillian Tett
Summary
New Zealand is losing people to Australia in record numbers, and the episode argues the main pull is simple economics: better pay, stronger job prospects, and a lower cost of living across the Tasman. A young lawyer describes leaving Auckland because he was living at subsistence level and says he almost doubled his income after moving to Melbourne. The result is a migration pattern that used to reverse, but increasingly does not, with New Zealand’s net citizen migration at its lowest since records began in 2001.
The discussion says the problem is concentrated in Auckland and Wellington, where weak house prices have hit construction and household wealth, while parts of the rest of the country have held up better. One guest says New Zealand also has deeper productivity issues and a housing shortage worsened by NIMBYism, creating an intergenerational divide between asset holders and everyone else. Another guest frames the country’s challenge as how to attract smart talent, not just stop it leaving.
The episode also contrasts New Zealand with countries that have managed brain drain by creating incentives for return migration, foreign investment, and stronger job creation. The former prime minister argues New Zealand should not panic, since its openness and close ties with Australia can still be an advantage, but he also says the country needs more opportunities if it wants young people to come back.
Key takeaways
- About 41,000 New Zealanders moved to Australia in 2025, the highest level in 12 years, and the episode says many are not coming home.
- A guest says leaving Auckland doubled his income in less than a year, underscoring how strongly pay and living costs are driving migration.
- The episode argues that weak house prices in Auckland and Wellington have hit construction and spending, while the rest of New Zealand has held up better.
- One guest says housing scarcity and NIMBYism are worsening inequality and making New Zealand less attractive to young workers.
- The former prime minister says New Zealand needs more opportunities and possible incentives if it wants to reverse the brain drain, but should not panic.
- The episode suggests New Zealand’s biggest task is not just stopping departures, but creating reasons for return migration.
Notable quotes
“-I would say pretty much entirely for economic reasons. I was working as a lawyer in Auckland for about a year and a half”
“But for me, at least, I basically doubled my income in less than a year, so. and the cost of living went down”
“New Zealand's net citizen migration is at its lowest since official data began in 2001”
“-There's a lot of self-inflicted wounds in New Zealand, not least, for example, the NIMBYism that prevents people from building enough houses”
How the episode opens
-Can I just grab a long black, please? Westin: In Melbourne, the so-called coffee capital of the world, lawyer Sean Collier has found a new home. -Thank you so much.
Westin: The New Zealander moved to Australia in 2023. -I would say pretty much entirely for economic reasons. I was working as a lawyer in Auckland for about a year and a half.
And I was essentially living at subsistence level, pretty much unable to save any money, I was-- Once you get paid, it would just be rent, groceries, gas, all the money's gone, essentially. Everyone's got like a different sort of version of events. But for me, at least, I basically doubled my income in less than a year, so.
and the cost of living went down. So the grass was very much greener. Westin: Collier is part of a growing movement.
About 41,000 New Zealanders moved to Australia in 2025, the highest level in 12 years, with more than half of those estimated to be between ages 20 and 39. And earlier this year, former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern joined them, a move which made international headlines and shone a light on New Zealand's economy. -There's a bit of a view that our economy isn't performing quite as well as Australia's economy.
Then you're feeding the narrative that people are starting to hear at dinner parties that, you know, all of our children are leaving, or the health care services are better, or some other kind of thing. Westin: Like Ardern, John Key is also a Former Prime Minister of New Zealand. And before that was Global Head of Foreign Exchange at Merrill Lynch.
-The New Zealand economy is not as strong as we'd like to be, and maybe not as strong as historically it has been, but it's not a story of universal lower growth.
From the episode’s captions: roughly the first two minutes, lightly cleaned. Keep watching on YouTube →
Topics
- new zealand migration
- australia jobs market
- net citizen migration
- repatriation trends
- labor market pull factors
Watch the episode
Watch “New Zealanders Are Moving to Australia in Record Numbers. Can It Get Them Back?” on YouTube
Summary, takeaways and quote selection by Octagon. Quotes are short excerpts; the full conversation is in the episode.
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